© by Elisabeth Hallett
Conversations with Cheyenne
An Interview with Mary Grace McManus
When I received the letter from Mary Grace McManus announcing the imminent
publication of her book, I knew she had something very special to share. The
letter read in part: "I had the most beautiful experience while I was pregnant
with my second child. I had conversations with my daughter before she was
born. . . Throughout my pregnancy her spirit remained close to me, waiting for
her new body. In this time there occurred a melding of souls or thoughts. There
was a taste of each other's personalities. It brought forth honesty, sharing of
thoughts and growth for each of us."
I requested a pre-press copy of Cheyenne: Journey to Birth, and found it to be a remarkable work. It is now published and available at bookstores, online outlets such as Amazon.com, and direct from the author who welcomes your inquiries - click on Mary Grace McManus to contact her.
Q: Mary Grace, can you describe the very first time you sensed contact with your unborn daughter?
A: It was a progressive invasion because I experienced symptoms of her before I actually found her. When I first felt her contact I didn't know what it was. I felt a constant nagging thought in my mind, a bit like when you have to remind yourself to turn the oven on at 3:00 and it is only noon. For the next three hours that nagging thought sits in the back of your head, making it hard to fully concentrate on anything else. Or if you've ever tried talking on the phone while someone else in the room is talking at you. My first experiences with Cheyenne were a similar type of constant interruption and nagging feeling.
I was having a hard time giving anything my total focus, but when I turned to these thoughts to "remember" what I was forgetting or what was nagging, there was nothing I could find at the root. The doctor said, "hormones..." Finally, I agree. As in many other physical ailments, I am quite sure that hormones can reflect a disruption in one's own energy system (very simple words for a very complex system of one's own love and acceptance of the world). In the case of pregnancy, the effect of another spirit, a whole other energy system, so close in your own space can greatly change your own energy. Medicine simplifies it as "hormones."
Q: How did you recognize that you were connecting with Cheyenne?
A: I continued to open up to the source of this "nagging." Soon, these bursts came with clear messages. What a relief that was. However, realizing the source opened up a whole new can of worms that I spent the next few months trying to resolve. Cheyenne would push her way into my consciousness, deliver her piece, then leave. On immediate impact of her messages, I knew it was her. Maybe the following example can relate how I recognized her voice.
Suppose on a visit to your uncle's, he shows you how to fix a toaster. You go home later that day to apply your new knowledge. As you are puzzling over a complex part of your toaster you "hear," in your mind, your uncle say "the red wire always goes on the top." "Ah ha!" you reply, and you fix the toaster. You know it was your uncle's voice you "heard" and you have the luxury of attributing that to your memory of your previous visit with him. Now, imagine your surprise when you sit back to review your visit with your uncle and you realize you never talked about wires with him at all!
Although this is a somewhat clumsy analogy, I believe it conveys my feelings of first recognizing Cheyenne's voice. While I was in the heat of "life" and she zapped me with one of her messages, there was no doubt that it came from her. In fact I knew it so matter of fact-ly that there was no reason to give it a second thought. The content was foreign enough that I also knew this thought wasn't from me. "Oh, hmmm Cheyenne had something interesting to say." That was all fine and dandy for the moment. However, in the ensuing nanosecond, about the time you were realizing that you and your uncle never talked about wiring, I was knocked to my duff, wondering "Who? Said what...?? My baby doesn't even have fingers or toes, let alone a brain to think thoughts or a mouth to say them with..." Ahhh, I was realizing the power and essence in life. Aside from the physical, which we tend to for our survival, a non-physical side is also along for the ride. It has an existence and a raison d'etre all its own.
Q: What stage of the pregnancy were you in when you began feeling that contact, beginning with the "nagging" in your mind? And how long did it go on in that form before you began to sense clear messages?
A: The nagging started about three weeks after conception. By six weeks Cheyenne's messages were clear but we did not yet have a back and forth communication established. That came a few weeks later when I got back into my meditation more regularly.
Q: I'm curious about Cheyenne's name and also your referring to her as "her." Did you get an early sense of her sex, and is there a special story attached to the name?
A: Absolutely I knew it was a girl. In fact I knew this baby was a girl from the time she first started sending me messages, even before we started our "conversational" communication. I remember the point that it struck me that I knew it was a girl. Again, an example:
Imagine that you are at a pet shop comparing prices of bird feed. From behind, a woman asks you, "Excuse me, do you know where they stock the mayonnaise?" You'd probably turn to her and as intelligently as you could muster answer something akin to "huh?" Because mayonnaise is so out of context for someone to look for in a pet shop, you'd ponder her question for a long while before you got around to consciously registering, "Oh, that was a woman."
And that is how I experienced Cheyenne. Her conversations and prodding threw me for such a powerful loop that it was probably a couple weeks after hearing from this little girl that I sat down and said, "Oh my God! I'm having a girl!" Sometimes it takes me a while to connect the obvious with the obvious!
As for Cheyenne's name, my first two children came with their own name. Had you asked me before I was pregnant with my first child if I'd ever name a little boy "Gus," the answer for me would have been an easy "nah." An even stronger example is my much more conservative husband. Had you asked him about the name "Gus" before we were pregnant, there would have been a solid "No Way." Once we were pregnant and discussing names (I was not conscious of spiritual conversations with my first child), "Gus" seemed unquestionably right for this baby. We occasionally laughed to each other about the name Gus, but we could not get over how perfect it felt for him.
Cheyenne's name was much the same. We considered it for Gus if he turned out to be a girl but decided Celeste was a much more fitting name. (I believe Cheyenne has been waiting since then to come.) I have always loved the name Celeste and still consider it my favorite girl's name. After Gus was born, I vowed I'd use the name Celeste if we ever had a girl. When I was pregnant with Cheyenne I tried and tried in my mind to use the name Celeste for her - it just didn't work. It was like pointing your finger upward and saying "Look Down! Look Down!" It just felt wrong from the inside. In fact during our conversations throughout my pregnancy with Cheyenne I called her Cheyenne but to myself I said, "I can still go with another name when she's born." I couldn't go with any name except Cheyenne for this little girl - she certainly wasn't as peaceful as the name Celeste might suggest! Cheyenne fit her. And so I say my first two children came with the name they wanted.
Q: As I understand it, you experienced the communication from Cheyenne as verbal messages that were strikingly different from your own thoughts. I'm sure we are curious now to have a sample of the content of her messages!
A: The messages from Cheyenne were a transference of thoughts and feelings. They did not come in words. In the book I describe the experience of receiving a whole message in a single instant. I must admit one of the biggest challenges in writing this book was translating those powerful messages. Our words are limited as to what each portrays. While communicating with Cheyenne, I felt I could travel each message into infinity with the understanding each brought of Love and life.
Q: So the verbal messages in Cheyenne, Journey to Birth are really a kind of translation of a more nonverbal communication?
A: Yes. I call it communication of the heart. We use it quite often with those with whom we feel a connection. Consider the following: "From across the room, he glanced at her. That was all she needed. She knew he would never tell." Or this: "The baby's smile transformed as the series of needles began. His mother's eyes swam in their flood to avert the baby's frozen stare. His eyes crushed her heart with the weight of their silent pleas. She could not whisk him away as he was begging her to do."
In these examples communication is in its purest state. It is known first in the heart. Communication with Cheyenne happened during meditation in this manner. In the book I put into words the communications as I heard them when they first hit my heart.
The most fascinating thing about these communications is that they expose the root of the mother-child bond. A connection to each other on a level where the scrutiny of the world remains powerless. These relationships start at our core and the outside world is slowly let in.
I've chosen the following passage in which Cheyenne was fearful and considering if she was truly ready to come into this world to give you an idea of how our communication went:
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Life continued on and Cheyenne grew very quiet. She hadn't nudged or intruded. My times of frustration were my own. I hadn't noticed her to be a part of any of them. At first I took pleasure in this, then I felt uneasy about the sudden dim in her disposition. I checked in with Cheyenne. I found her in a very dark and vulnerable space.
Cheyenne: I'm afraid.
I felt her fear in my bones.
Me: Afraid of what?
Cheyenne: I'm afraid. I don't want to come into this world. I'm afraid to be alone.
When I answered her, I tried to be strong. I immediately wanted to tell her she was wrong. That she wouldn't be alone. That her father and I would be here. That she had the most wonderful brother and many others who loved her. We wouldn't let anything happen to her and we would be there to help with whatever she needed. But her choice was much harder than that.
Something so inescapable about spiritual communication is the clarity and pure understanding that come with it. It goes beyond even the most beautiful words. You see, Cheyenne knew of the love that surrounded and awaited her. She knew there were many souls ready to guide and care for her both physically and spiritually.
Cheyenne was realizing what it meant to come into this world and take on a body. Regardless of the support and happiness waiting for her we both knew that every individual must face personal challenges in a lifetime. Taking on a body is a commitment to a lifetime of learning which always involves pain. It is watching others suffer. It is experiencing disappointments and injustices. It is hard choices compared with easy ways out. It is responsibility. In journeying through life each soul must make choices and experience growth. No votes are taken and nobody else accepts blame. We each grow through individual lessons. It is hard.
Cheyenne knew about life's joys. She now had to decide if she was up to facing its challenges.
Me: Cheyenne, this decision is yours. I am here to support and love you. I will guide and teach you the best I know how. This life is hard and, at times, unnerving. And Yes, you alone are responsible for your life. I realize you know all that is involved, so I will not try to convince you to face this challenge if you are not ready.
There was apprehension in my heart.
Me: If this is the last time I speak with you, please know how much I love you and take my love with you.
I left Cheyenne that night wondering if I would ever see her again.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Q: Please tell us about your method of meditation.
A: My meditation is a quieting of my mind, slowing and then ceasing my outside thoughts. I put my focus on the center of my head and my spirit. It takes practice and consistency for me to turn my mind off but when I reach a quiet state it is as if I have entered another dimension where I am separate from my body and I am with only spirit. Here is where I found Cheyenne.
Q: I'm struck by your mention of finding Cheyenne in a "dark space." Was there a visual component to your experience of her?
A: I saw Cheyenne as different colors and shapes of light. I felt her attitudes and messages in my heart. That is how I experienced her. The darkness I speak of is a peaceful and private place that doesn't compare with our world here. Time or things don't exist. Deceit (especially of self) and judgment don't exist, only understanding and learning.
I only saw Cheyenne physically one time. It was during the time she was in great competition with an old energy or emotion and she entered her body to try to regain her control. Otherwise, I experienced her as spirit. When I refer to her "turning away from me," she turned her attention away from me.
Q: Does this special kind of communication continue after birth?
A: Oh, yes. This communication continues. And it's a surprisingly familiar thing. Communication continues in this life as mother's intuition. Or, should I say, the mother's intuition that has always been an honored phenomenon is merely a continuation of pre-birth communication, a concrete knowing of someone that started when our hearts were open and unafraid, well before we first held that little person in our arms.
Q: Is there a continuity between Cheyenne before birth and Cheyenne the little girl? Do you see the same "essence" of self in her now - things that confirm the impressions of her that you received when she was in the womb?
A: When you ask about recognizing the Cheyenne I know now as the little spirit who accompanied me during my pregnancy, there are a few definite signs that bring a smile to my face.
She is still a very forward spirit, always fighting for attention. It was with this spark that she first got my attention before birth.
She is driven very hard by emotion.
There is an urgency with which she fights for things that seems to stem more out of desperation to not lose something than actually out of desire for the thing. Being true to yourself and your path, when life's events do not go as you would wish, was something she worked hard on before she came here. And I'm sure it will be a lifetime of learning still.
One of my favorites is to watch her draw. At one point in the book there was a lot of discussion around how to "be" in the world, and at the end of one of these discussions, she left me with an artistic splash of color and answered, "painter. . ." Though I will not hold her to that career, it makes me smile to watch her spend hour upon hour drawing tiny little circles and coloring every one of them in. It brings me back to that peaceful time before her birth.
Yes, there are numerous traits I see today that I first met in our pregnancy. There are not as many spiritual journeys or clear sights of life together as there were before she was born. She made the decision to come and is now enthralled and completely focused on enjoying, laughing and learning her tools: her hands, arms, legs and mostly how to think. The brain is a funny thing, it is our biggest asset in life and at the same time has the greatest potential to protect us, or reason us away from things of a more spiritual nature, things requiring faith, trust and the heart. As a race, the human race, we are beginning to balance the two. . . the power of our brain, our earthly protector, discerner and strategizer with the power of our origin, our spirit. As for Cheyenne, she has a lifetime of choices ahead of her. I am enjoying watching each step!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
You can write directly to Mary Grace McManus by clicking on her name.
Return to Index of Articles or go to